Glennis Markison 0:06
Hi, I'm Glennis Markison from HappyCo. Welcome to Voices where we feature fresh perspectives in multifamily. Our guests share their voices on emerging trends, leadership strategies and much more. Today, our guest is Matt Lyttle, a career public servant and a disaster preparedness expert who's currently detailed in the US Senate and before the Senate, Matt served as the acting deputy director of FEMA's individual and community preparedness division. In that role, he led several strategic initiatives for FEMA and FEMA's behavior change research. Today on Voices, Matt joins us to discuss how multifamily operators can begin the process of partially reopening their communities, as states loosen requirements surrounding COVID-19. Along the way, Matt will discuss workplace safety communication strategies and much more. Hi, Matt. Thanks for joining us for Voices.

Matt Little 1:04
Hey, Glennis. Thanks for having me.

Glennis Markison 1:06
So glad you're here. I think this topic is relevant in a big way as we switch to a new normal. And I guess just to kick it off, I mean, what are the biggest challenges that operators face in partially reopening shared spaces, as state and local policies kind of ease up? So, work spaces, gyms, playgrounds, rooftops, just so many things to consider in multifamily.

Matt Lyttle 1:27
Absolutely. And again, yeah, thanks for having me on. This is a great opportunity to talk a little bit about some of the things that we can do now to get us ready for that reopening that you mentioned. And then also for whatever it may come down the road, right? Floods or tornadoes, hurricanes, we can learn a lot from this particular incident to make a stronger down the road. To your question about big challenges, it's really a few things that I see for multifamily operators. The first is we've gotta figure out some realistic solutions that makes sense to residents, to the operators, and to anybody else that's coming on site. Don't want to come up with rules that seem so draconian or so out of touch that people just dismiss them right off the bat. So, I think it takes an individual approach to each property and finding something realistic that makes sense. The next thing, once you sort of have that general outline, I would say we've gotta communicate as clearly as possible what the policies are and when we expect them to change, so that people have a general sense of what they'll see in the next week, two weeks, month or so on. And then really the last thing, and this is probably going to be the biggest challenge for multifamily operators, is staying up to date on the latest guidance from local and state health officials, from the federal government, from lenders and others, because we wanna make sure that we're giving the most accurate information possible every step along the way, to the people that are renting from us.

Glennis Markison 2:51
Yeah, no. And I really think on the staff level, I mean, what should operators be considering as far as employee policies, workplace policies, as they keep in mind in this partially reopening stage?

Matt Lyttle 3:02
Well, that's definitely another angle. Of course, there's gonna be some mom and pop operators that maybe have one, two, maybe a handful of properties and they are going to be doing the maintenance and the upkeep and all that kind of work, interacting with tenants. And then you may have some others that do have that professional staff on site. I would say the biggest thing is to keep staff on your side. And that means keeping them safe healthy and keeping them heard about the issues that they're seeing. You know, as a manager myself, it's so important that I'm checking in with my team as regularly as possible so that we have that report not only so that I can help change direction if need be, but also that they feel supported in their everyday work. Listen, we're all stressed out with this. I've been home teleworking with two elementary schoolers right next to me for over two months now. And it's so nice to know that my supervisor's willing to check in with me. So the same has to be true with workplace policies. I think that also means rewarding excellence. Okay, people are working more time, they're stressed on their home life, and they're trying to do what they can to meet the demands of their job. If you see excellence from the staff, you've gotta reward it in some way, and that may not be financial, but it might just be a well thought out note directed to that person that lets them know that you care about them caring about their job. And then the last piece, Glennis, I think is important is to make sure that we are reviewing policy and extending our policies to third party contractors or visitors to our property. You know, if you hire a plumber, if you have a lawn person that comes through, if you're doing some painting or maintenance on the outside, we've gotta make sure that you're letting those folks know that they're taking the same safety precautions because I guarantee you the renters are gonna come to you when they have a problem with somebody on site. So now's a chance to go through your rolodex of the businesses that you work with and those that you have on retainer or contracts with and check in with them. What are you doing to keep your employees safe? How can we be on the same team? How can I communicate to my renters so that everybody feels like it's their best interest that's coming first?

Glennis Markison 5:05
Yeah, no, I think that's so interesting too, about the recognizing hard work and all of it. And I think just to kind of circle back when you talk about checking in with staff is that, do you think best on an individual level? Is it good to know in front of a group meeting that you want everyone to kind of raise their hand one out of five, how they're feeling? Like what do you think is the sort of nice balance between checking in that way?

Matt Lyttle 5:24
Yeah, that's a tough one because everybody responds differently to those sorts of things. I mean, I love team games, but I'm a little guy that's always going to roll my eyes when I have to do some sort of team building trust fall sort of thing. With one particular employee, it might be a personal note. It may just be a text that says, hey, thinking of you, it could be checking in on other family issues. I mean, we all feel great when your boss says, you know, how are the kids, for instance, or how's the dog or how's that project going? Whatever it may be that's outside of work, just having that connection, I think is really big because that's what we're all thinking about, right? We obviously, the people that are working, want to make sure they're doing their jobs well, but we all have all of these other considerations in life crashing down on us right now. So knowing that our bosses see us as people, not just as workers, it's always going to go the distance for us.

Glennis Markison 6:16
Yeah. I mean, I think that's huge and I wonder too in terms of when a worker becomes vulnerable, like do you, can you recommend something about the way that there should be sick leave in place like PTO? All of that. I mean, that's obviously the more legal side which we're going to turn to next. But yeah, if you could get into some of those policies that make people know, look if something does happen if they do fall ill or get stressed for a day or two, what's available to them?

Matt Lyttle 6:37
Yeah. I think this is really going to be a gradient depending on the size of the operation that we're talking about here. If you're a mom and pop and you're just doing this with your spouse or with a relative or something like that, it's going to be hard to have these steadfast policies, but you may also find the better opportunities to be flexible. And the larger enterprises, it's going to be so important to have those rules laid out early and to make sure that they're being applied equitably across all staff involved. Of course, there's going to be individual situations based on someone's family situation or their housing or something else. But jeez, we've gotta make sure that again, people feel heard and that they feel like they can be safe in the workplace.

Glennis Markison 7:20
Yeah. And I think if you could cover some of the legal topics that they should have in mind as operators as they kind of make this partial reopening happen, I think that would be very helpful for listeners.

Matt Lyttle 7:30
Yeah. Well, I don't really want to get into the idea of what to do if a tenant misses rent.

Glennis Markison 7:36
Right. No, no.

Matt Lyttle 7:37
Evictions are a hot topic, and I'm monitoring that myself just as I listen to the news every day and gosh, what a difficult situation both renters and operators are in right now to try and get through this thing. So, you know, I would say probably the biggest thing when it comes to legal is making sure that you're still up to date on the information that you're sharing. Okay? So we know that on a day-to-day basis governors, state health departments, local health departments are reevaluating the situation and applying policy that makes sense for wherever they may find themselves in this particular wave of COVID-19. So I would truly bookmark those sites. Okay? Whether it's the state health department, your local health department, maybe even your local police department, see what they're sharing. Listen, as someone who's spent a career in government, there's nothing that makes me happier than seeing the content that we developed and post on a government site, copy and pasted directly for residents. So operators have their network, they can borrow that same exact content that you see through the local governments and actually use that. And that's the way to do it. Number one, it's going to give you less anxiety because, you know that you're giving the direct information that you see. Number two, it's going to show consistency to your renters that you're following the rules and that you care about their safety because you're getting the right information. And then number three, it's going to allow you to keep in touch with how those recommendations are changing and apply them to your spaces and to your properties. To me that's how you can avoid the legal concerns, right? Making sure that you're following the guidance by the letter as it comes from your local officials. You know, when I first started in the federal government here in Washington, DC, we used to have something that we call the Washington Post test. And it basically was, you know, is the activity that you're doing, is the email you're sending, is the meeting that you're going to, it could be perfectly legal and ethical and moral in every way, but does it past the Washington Post test? Would you be okay with your name and that situation that you've created for yourself showing up on the front page of the paper? And I think just about all owners and operators are seeing the ramifications of policies that may not have been totally thought through and how those are playing out and local media as we get through this situation. You know, renters certainly have enough problems on their own hands, and operators do too. But as I review the media, usually the side comes down on the side of the renter. So we really wanna make sure that we're protecting ourselves by staying to the letter of the guidance provided by local officials.

Glennis Markison 10:02
Yeah, that's such a... Washington Post test. I think that's definitely what listeners are gonna take away from this now too. I also want to transition before we get into communication. Just the mental health side of this is so, so weighty at this point. I mean everybody's got it on their minds. And how can operators consider this mental health angle as they craft communications and set logistics, et cetera.

Matt Lyttle 10:25
This is such a big thing, it's such a big thing. I mean, you know, thinking back six months ago, I'm sure we all felt that our level of stress based on job and life and other things we had going on was already right up to the top of the bucket, right? So now we're spilling over with this unfamiliar situation, the fear of contracting a virus, having a family member contract the virus, and then the economic anxiety with that as well. I mean myself, I feel like I'm on this emotional roller coaster every single day. Sometimes it's that morning coffee that puts me back on a level playing field and by the afternoon, I'm already fried right? And it's time to start over again and recenter. So we're all going through that and it changes on an hour by hour basis. So recognizing that in both tenants and staff, in those third party contractors that we may work with, we have to show some grace there. You know, I've always found that it's the genuine interaction that builds trust. I feel like even when we were planning all sorts of nationwide government media pushes in campaigns to build preparedness, it's the genuine interaction that really makes the difference for folks, and people are smart. They can see through the stock, wooden, cardboard response to some of these issues. What they want is genuine interaction. So we've got to find ways to bring that in. And then lastly, you know, as owners and operators have property, I can imagine that folks are dealing with disputes between tenants, between neighbors, between visitors, between others that may be on site. I think right now it's so important that we find ways to de-escalate the attention that we see between possible conflict, finding ways to bring that grace to the situation, really addressing it, looking people to people and trying to find a way through the particular issue. Conflict is not going to help folks right now. What we need is to understand where people are coming from and hopefully find a solution that makes sense for all.

Glennis Markison 12:15
Yeah. I mean, I think that's so, that's so lovely to kinda share with operators because it really is that side of what is, what was everyone already experiencing? And how did the pandemic worsen or challenge it? So I think going into communication strategies around the particular stage of reopening but reopening partially, what could you recommend as far as tone, the kinds of different platforms where operators should be communicating to a broad demographic of renters? So really, the tone of the messaging and then what kinds of messages are best, like bite size versus email?

Matt Lyttle 12:45
Yeah. So this is such an important thing. There's sort of three principles that I always take into crisis communications and that may be coming during a tornado, during a hurricane, sadly, during an active shooter incident that you may see in your community, and other situations, even just the loss of a loved one. And the three principles are this: first, you want to be timely, second, you want to be honest, and third, you want to be hopeful that things will get better down the road. So when I say these three principles, timely means that we have to give the most accurate information when we have it. And again, that's the genuine interaction piece. If you've got information that's new, it's important to share that with folks that need to hear it, and that holds true for tenants and others. Secondly, being honest is really, really big. You can't talk out of one side of your mouth to your staff or to a vendor and then talk on the other side to tenants because guess what sometimes those paths overlap and it's the same audience, and you don't want to get caught in that situation. It's always better to be honest about what you know, and when you know it. And then lastly, be hopeful. As you mentioned, the mental health thing is big. Listen, there's going to be a day when we get through this. I don't know when it's going to be, but I'm confident that at some point, things will normalize and we will be able to continue on with all the lives that we love. So it's really, really important that we take those principles forward in our communications to residents. Your comment about, you know, bite size or email. I think that there's an opportunity for all, and that really gets to this idea of platforms and how we talk to those things. But again, let's just re-emphasize the fact that we want to be timely, honest, and hopeful in communicating with residents, with neighbors, with the public, or whoever we need to work with during these tough times.

Glennis Markison 14:30
Yeah. And I would love to, you touched on something very interesting too, and all of that is, there is often a way that a company communicates internally and then a very different tone externally. So I would love the kind of notion of, how do you think operators would be maybe expected to encourage their staff just as much as they would want to encourage their residents, and not maybe kind of have a pressure cooker-effective communications internally, that they tried to ease off on suddenly with the residents.

Matt Lyttle 14:55
Right. And that's also about keeping staff on their side. As I mentioned early on, when it comes to the workplace policies, if you're trying to keep two story straight, you're gonna get confused at some point. Let's be honest with the information that you have because the worst thing is, for you as the owner operator, to set a policy that perhaps you email out or you post on a community board or something like that, and then have your staff have a different understanding of what's going to play out. Because guess what? The staff are the ones that are interacting with residents on a daily basis. And what I hate to see whenever I'm working in a multi-tiered level supervision is when that person on the ground has to say, hey listen, the boss said this, but what I think really is going on is this. I mean that's not the way you want it to be. You want that person on the ground to feel supported, to feel like they know just as much as you know, and that they can share openly and honestly with the people they interact with on a regular basis.

Glennis Markison 15:51
Yeah. And I mean, how exactly do you think that operators right now can make their residents feel they have a sense of agency? So, let's say the operators issue a communication around the pool only being, you know, five people instead of 30 normally, or the gym only has six treadmills instead of 12 normally. How do you think you can still affect a sense of agency in the person reading that message?

Matt Lyttle 16:12
Yeah. Well first, let's talk about, if you don't mind, how do we get that message to the individuals?

Glennis Markison 16:17
Yes, definitely.

Matt Lyttle 16:18
Yeah. You know, I kinda look at communication especially around crises and strict policy in a one, two three kind of approach. So the first is there's one-way communication that you push out. The second is a two-way communication that's a private, maybe privileged, dialogue between a resident and an operator. And then the three is sort of the community level communication, right? Something that may get posted on next door or on a social media platform like Facebook, where residents can create their own dialogue outside of the message posted by the owner operator. So when you think of this one two three mentality, it's also important to understand our level of control with each of these steps. On the one way comms that we're going to post on that message board, you know, maybe about the pool rules or the gym rules, it's so important that we get that right. And that's when we want to be checking in with local health officials and so on and making sure that information we're offering is timely and honest. Then the second piece, that two-way comms, understand that the information that you may be getting from a resident, they may not want shared more broadly, or there may be some sort of issue there with another tenant or with their own personal situation that they don't want to get out and about. So you've really got to figure out how you maintain that sense of privacy with individual residence, and that you can share the same kinds of information in a genuine way. You're sharing with a one-way push but on a conversational basis. And then of course, let's talk about those social media posts when it's three or more people in the community. So you post your pool rules and then you're going to get a whole series of comments and responses to those pool rules. Someone's gonna say, I think this is great. Someone's gonna say, thanks for keeping a safe. Somebody else is gonna say, heck, no, I'm not following that rule. Someone else is gonna say, where can I find more information? And so we've got to understand our level of control in that message and how we use that to interact with residents. Again, you can just borrow from your local health officials. You can borrow from ready.gov, the FEMA website with all this preparedness information and you can just cut and paste that information right into the messages that you're sharing with residents. And that will give you and your staff confidence that what you're sharing is accurate and timely. So, I think that that's a really, really big deal. So when it comes to agency, this is a really, really big deal. You know, everybody is sitting at home right now or perhaps they're not, perhaps they're an essential worker and they're out and about every day, and they're trying to find ways to square their experience with a sense of hopefulness that we discussed earlier. They're looking for ways to have agency and to participate, and finding a solution to this. Now, some folks are doing that in ways that are less productive than others, but there are people out there who want to help. And so finding ways to enlist your residents is going to be a really, really big deal. You've got to find ways for people to feel like they can be part of the solution. And I don't have an answer for that, for every owner operator that would apply across the board, but there are creative ways that we can get folks involved in this. You know, one thing that we learned doing that preparedness research that you mentioned at the start of the podcast is that a lot of people don't take action to prepare for disasters because they don't think that their activities are going to make a difference when the disaster comes. So think about that. You've got someone who's sitting at home. They know that they should build an emergency kit, for instance, or they should sign up for alerts and warnings, but they don't do it because they don't think it's gonna make a difference. Well, we can impact that. We can tell people that, yes, you are part of the solution and every action you take to keep yourself safe, helps protect others. So we've got to find ways to do that. I would say anything that we can do online is great. Any sort of engagement that we can foster between residents in that one two three style of communication is going to be very, very big. And then also anything we can do to get people outside safely is going to be a big deal. I'm thinking of things like public space clean-ups or picking up trash at the stream that's nearby, or maybe some sort of chalk on the sidewalk contest for kids in the community. If we can do these things while maintaining social distance, I think that's really gonna help people feel like they have a role to play in getting us to the next phase of reopening.

Glennis Markison 20:34
Yeah. I think that's really lovely, you know. And everyone wants to feel that they can affect change right now instead of sort of, kind of flounder or feel frozen. And I think that's incredibly helpful to anyone listening. And I think since we already jumped to a question I was going for, let's go straight into the future. I mean, how would multifamily operators, how would they do best rethinking disaster preparation after this? Because you could, like you said, feel frozen in this moment or think ahead more hopefully. So how do you think operators can sort of plan for the next flood or hurricane or other community disaster, with this kind of experience as a starting point?

Matt Lyttle 21:08
Well first, let's just say it's not just operators that are doing this, so they shouldn't feel like they're going out alone. Everybody needs to be thinking how are we gonna take the lessons that we learned and apply them to the future? That could be a small business. It could be a house of worship. It could be a school district, or all the way up to the United States Senate. This is important that we take the lessons that we've learned and we apply them so that we can stay safe next time down the road. Now, how do we do that? I mean that that's the million dollar question. I will give you a freebie here, Glennis, if you'd like it.

Glennis Markison 21:42
Let's take the freebie, take the freebie.

Matt Lyttle 22:21
I know some folks who spent a lot of money on some very, very top-tier consulting firms to try and figure out how we do this kind of stuff and really what they found came down to two things: people and places. Let's separate people and how we prepare people from how we prepare places. And I think that this is a really, really big deal and something that owners and operators can apply to their own thinking of how they move forward. So, the first thing I thought of when we started this conversation was the touch that an owner operator has with a new renter. You know, whenever I've moved to a new community, it's unfamiliar. You spend a whole weekend moving in and usually you want to find the best local pizza place to get delivered or maybe it's Chinese or tacos or whatever your choice of food may be. And I've had a lot of great landlords who have given me a map of local offerings. I think that that is such a cool thing. And I say, go ahead and add onto the corner that map maybe some of the local hazards that people may face, you know, people move all over this country. They may not be used to snowstorms, where you are, they may not be used to hurricane preparation. Maybe they're not, they haven't lived this close to an area that floods. It might not be your property but it could be the single lane road that's a couple of Miles away. So sort of sharing that information right up front is really big. And then also on that sharing, you know, we'll talk about where the grocery stores are and the pizza places, and so on, and the owners and operators put down the local police department or the fire department. I've traveled around the country and talked with a lot of communities about how to build this sense of preparedness, and one of my number one recommendations is, on a nice day, hop in your car or walk down the road to the local fire precinct or police station, and just say, hey. Get to know the people that are there because they're the ones that are going to come and help you in a time of need and guess what, they're some of the friendliest people you'll ever meet, and they will be so excited to talk to you and your family about ways to get prepared locally. So, I think think about that map, think about that first touch that you have with residents as they're moving in. What information can you impart to help them feel safe and secure and healthy in their new home? Because that's really what it is, it's a new home. And then in terms of places, let's think about the seasonal cycle that we go through in a property. Maybe you live in an area with four seasons. Maybe you only have a couple. I know you folks out in California tend to have this beautiful weather all year long and we're very jealous here on the east coast.

Glennis Markison 24:08
Yeah, we make up for it in rent, I promise.

Matt Lyttle 24:12
But we have several days throughout the year like birthday, National Public Lands Day, you have Service Day, Martin Luther King Jr. Day, 911 Day of Remembrance, where we have an opportunity to get outside and give back to the community where we live, play, and work. So I would encourage owners and operators to build teams to get out and do these kinds of things, find ways to get engaged in the community on these special days and the seasonal days throughout the year to do something together and build the community and also give back because we're all looking to call the place where we live home. And the more opportunities operators can offer to make that a reality, the better, in my mind.

Glennis Markison 24:50
Yeah. I mean, I think that's so useful to kind of, in this way, go from fearing things to knowing, you know. To actually engaging with your community where you know the resources, you know the people.

Matt Lyttle 25:00
Yeah. I couldn't agree more and that sense of agency that builds in somebody is so big. I mean, I've done activities with communities that really felt disconnected from their local governance structure. Maybe it's the mayor's office or a city council, or something like that. And all we do is a simple activity where groups of 10 or 12 people drawing a map of their community. They picture themselves experiencing a likely hazard in their area, maybe it's a wildfire, tornado, and they talk about how they would work their way through the community to check on residents, to check on each other, and it to be safe. Just that activity alone builds a sense of hope and a sense of agency that really can pay off when the real event happens down the road.

Glennis Markison 25:42
Yeah. I mean just that sense of connectedness, I think everybody is really craving right now in their own rooms and their own units, I think is wonderful. We have just another minute or two to answer what I think would be a nice and a positive spin to all of this, to what you've so certainly instilled throughout. But what is an interaction you can say that just really shaped your belief that maybe we are in this together, no matter where we live. Something in your work where you've really been touched by camaraderie and a sense of unity as opposed to separation.

Matt Lyttle 26:10
Two different examples for you. I used to run a program called Community Emergency Response Team, CERT. They're all over the country. And these are volunteers in your community that are doing a ton of great work to prepare the community for the future. There's one in Baltimore that has a program called Snow Buddies, and with Snow Buddies, they've given older residents who are home-bounds, these little signs that they can put in their window when it snows. They can put up a sign that says, "Okay" or "Need Help". And the "Okay" side means I'll get around to shoveling at some point, so don't worry about it, and the "Need Help" side means that the Snow Buddies, these CERT volunteers can come through the community and clear off stoops and sidewalks and driveways and so on, within the community. And I love this because it's providing for that sense of interaction in a safe way. It's allowing people, those home-bound seniors to feel connected with others. And also, it's building the muscle memory for the big events, where those same signs can play a role if we have a power outage or something else, for seniors that need help, that's one thing. And then I got another for your real quick and that is, an extended family member of mine, she has a sort of a home away from home up in the mountains where she has a quilting setup and she's a big quilter. Her name is Susan and Susan has been making masks from her mountaintop retreat and sending them to all sorts of family members. I have a stack of 15 or 20 masks over here just next to me in my office here for the family to use. And I really like this example because again, there's things that we all can bring to this. We all have skills, traits, and abilities that can make a difference. We don't need to go rushing out the door to help face-to-face. There's so much that we can do from home. So, I think those two examples, the individual, right? How do we as an individual contribute? And then how do we as a community build a sense of home for the others that live there with us? I think those two are really positive examples that show that, you know, overall, we're going to get through this thing. We're going to come out stronger on the other side. And if we apply the lessons learned to the next incident, we're going to do better then as well.

Glennis Markison 28:12
Thank you so much, Matt, for joining us on Voices. Honestly, I think this is just the hope that I'm honestly, as an interviewer, and all the operators listening, I think we all really needed. So I'm grateful you joined us.

Matt Lyttle 28:22
Well, I'm always happy to talk about it and I can't wait to hear the feedback from this podcast so that I can take some of the lessons learned by operators and carry them around the country to the other discussions I have.

Glennis Markison 28:32
Fantastic, fantastic. Well, thanks again for being here.

Matt Lyttle 28:35
Thank you.

Glennis Markison 28:37
If you'd like to hear from other voices in multifamily or learn how to share your voice, head to voices.happy.co. You can find Voices on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. Voices is produced by HappyCo, the leading real-time property operations platform for multifamily and student housing. Our mission is to elevate property management to community management, prioritizing staff and resident wellbeing. That starts by listening to you, the voices of multifamily. I'm Glennis Markison, thanks for listening. Also, feel free to take a minute and rate or review this podcast. That will help assure the voices of multifamily.